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	<title>Comments on: Wasting my life</title>
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	<link>http://lookspring.co.uk/wasting-my-life</link>
	<description>Videogames and things, by Margaret Robertson</description>
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		<title>By: Keith Irwin</title>
		<link>http://lookspring.co.uk/wasting-my-life/comment-page-1#comment-8535</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Irwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 18:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lookspring.co.uk/?p=212#comment-8535</guid>
		<description>Games have taken a lot less away from the potential accomplishments of humanity than all those centuries of killing each other and fighting over territory and religion.  Maybe they&#039;ll be our downfall someday, but it would surprise me greatly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Games have taken a lot less away from the potential accomplishments of humanity than all those centuries of killing each other and fighting over territory and religion.  Maybe they&#8217;ll be our downfall someday, but it would surprise me greatly.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Armitage</title>
		<link>http://lookspring.co.uk/wasting-my-life/comment-page-1#comment-8409</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Armitage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 21:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lookspring.co.uk/?p=212#comment-8409</guid>
		<description>This all reminds me of Clay Shirky&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shirky.com/herecomeseverybody/2008/04/looking-for-the-mouse.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&#039;Gin and Sitcoms&#039;&lt;/a&gt; argument, where he suggested that there was a huge &#039;cognitive surplus&#039; bound up in (during the 20th Century) watching TV (and, prior to that, drinking gin).

And whilst it&#039;s a seductive argument, especially for those of us with an inbuilt work ethic that constantly nags at our own failures... I think I prefer &lt;a href=&quot;http://antimega.textdriven.com/antimega/2008/04/28/everything-ie-anything&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my friend Chris&#039; take&lt;/a&gt;: that we all need downtime, and that downtime is sacrosanct no matter how banal, be it TV, or anything else.

We weren&#039;t going to get to Mars anyway; we&#039;d have found something else - booze, mime-shows, condensed books - to distract us. And, given a choice between mime or condensed books... I&#039;d duck the question and go back to technical brawlers, any day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This all reminds me of Clay Shirky&#8217;s <a href="http://www.shirky.com/herecomeseverybody/2008/04/looking-for-the-mouse.html" rel="nofollow">&#8216;Gin and Sitcoms&#8217;</a> argument, where he suggested that there was a huge &#8216;cognitive surplus&#8217; bound up in (during the 20th Century) watching TV (and, prior to that, drinking gin).</p>
<p>And whilst it&#8217;s a seductive argument, especially for those of us with an inbuilt work ethic that constantly nags at our own failures&#8230; I think I prefer <a href="http://antimega.textdriven.com/antimega/2008/04/28/everything-ie-anything" rel="nofollow">my friend Chris&#8217; take</a>: that we all need downtime, and that downtime is sacrosanct no matter how banal, be it TV, or anything else.</p>
<p>We weren&#8217;t going to get to Mars anyway; we&#8217;d have found something else &#8211; booze, mime-shows, condensed books &#8211; to distract us. And, given a choice between mime or condensed books&#8230; I&#8217;d duck the question and go back to technical brawlers, any day.</p>
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		<title>By: Hamish</title>
		<link>http://lookspring.co.uk/wasting-my-life/comment-page-1#comment-8405</link>
		<dc:creator>Hamish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lookspring.co.uk/?p=212#comment-8405</guid>
		<description>Darn, I thought those [i] tags would work. Shows how much of a glib about game systems I&#039;m being, I guess. Also, sorry that my comment&#039;s length rivals the actual post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darn, I thought those [i] tags would work. Shows how much of a glib about game systems I&#8217;m being, I guess. Also, sorry that my comment&#8217;s length rivals the actual post.</p>
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		<title>By: Hamish</title>
		<link>http://lookspring.co.uk/wasting-my-life/comment-page-1#comment-8404</link>
		<dc:creator>Hamish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lookspring.co.uk/?p=212#comment-8404</guid>
		<description>Hey, I&#039;m the guy quoted here, and thank you for a well thought out response. I was thinking a lot about this last night, and I&#039;m throwing this out in regards to power fantasy: One can present a massive army of dudes to kill, and mowing through them with weapons is guaranteed to be fun - for a while. To the vast majority of people, it would get boring. Jonathan Blow talked about this a while ago: unless there is the feeling of danger, unless there is some difficulty involved then [i]the player does not feel as if they are actually taking on an army[/i]. This sounds a little obvious, but it&#039;s really interesting to game design, and I want to take it one step further. From the way that we understand interactive things, such as the army, [i]we do not desire power fantasies[/i].

Let&#039;s say you were to make the game with the army. And then you had someone play it, with their inevitable victory. But you recorded them doing so, and showed it to another person. I think there would be no distinction whatsoever in their experiences of the &quot;game&quot;, and so I don&#039;t think that in this respect we ask for power fantasies from gameplay.

Also, let me say that I&#039;m really really interested in the first part too, about learning. From your consultancy page, would I be right in guessing that that sex education game comes from channel 4&#039;s big education based gaming project? I actually saw a speech by Alice Taylor at a conference on game based learning is the thing, which I reviewed here: http://www.culturewars.org.uk/index.php/site/article/Chocolate_covered_broccoli/ and it&#039;s completely fascinating.

Now, you said this:
&quot;it’s pretty much essential that everyone who plays the game is able to finish it&quot;
Which I think is sorta true, but not completely. I think that unless the player is required to understand the game, there is literally no point in playing. Sure they&#039;ll [i]see[/i] things, but you can&#039;t guarantee they&#039;ll take it in as well as they should be doing. It&#039;s a textbook way of thinking about things, and it&#039;s not impossible for them to learn stuff, but it&#039;s harder. You will teach more by playing to people&#039;s instinct to learn, which playing [good] games, they will utilise. (I&#039;d apply the same thinking to artistic statements made with gameplay, actually)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I&#8217;m the guy quoted here, and thank you for a well thought out response. I was thinking a lot about this last night, and I&#8217;m throwing this out in regards to power fantasy: One can present a massive army of dudes to kill, and mowing through them with weapons is guaranteed to be fun &#8211; for a while. To the vast majority of people, it would get boring. Jonathan Blow talked about this a while ago: unless there is the feeling of danger, unless there is some difficulty involved then [i]the player does not feel as if they are actually taking on an army[/i]. This sounds a little obvious, but it&#8217;s really interesting to game design, and I want to take it one step further. From the way that we understand interactive things, such as the army, [i]we do not desire power fantasies[/i].</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say you were to make the game with the army. And then you had someone play it, with their inevitable victory. But you recorded them doing so, and showed it to another person. I think there would be no distinction whatsoever in their experiences of the &#8220;game&#8221;, and so I don&#8217;t think that in this respect we ask for power fantasies from gameplay.</p>
<p>Also, let me say that I&#8217;m really really interested in the first part too, about learning. From your consultancy page, would I be right in guessing that that sex education game comes from channel 4&#8242;s big education based gaming project? I actually saw a speech by Alice Taylor at a conference on game based learning is the thing, which I reviewed here: <a href="http://www.culturewars.org.uk/index.php/site/article/Chocolate_covered_broccoli/" rel="nofollow">http://www.culturewars.org.uk/index.php/site/article/Chocolate_covered_broccoli/</a> and it&#8217;s completely fascinating.</p>
<p>Now, you said this:<br />
&#8220;it’s pretty much essential that everyone who plays the game is able to finish it&#8221;<br />
Which I think is sorta true, but not completely. I think that unless the player is required to understand the game, there is literally no point in playing. Sure they&#8217;ll [i]see[/i] things, but you can&#8217;t guarantee they&#8217;ll take it in as well as they should be doing. It&#8217;s a textbook way of thinking about things, and it&#8217;s not impossible for them to learn stuff, but it&#8217;s harder. You will teach more by playing to people&#8217;s instinct to learn, which playing [good] games, they will utilise. (I&#8217;d apply the same thinking to artistic statements made with gameplay, actually)</p>
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		<title>By: Maesteg Hand</title>
		<link>http://lookspring.co.uk/wasting-my-life/comment-page-1#comment-8402</link>
		<dc:creator>Maesteg Hand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 18:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lookspring.co.uk/?p=212#comment-8402</guid>
		<description>And messing up the grammar of a blog comment is definitely not one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And messing up the grammar of a blog comment is definitely not one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Maesteg Hand</title>
		<link>http://lookspring.co.uk/wasting-my-life/comment-page-1#comment-8401</link>
		<dc:creator>Maesteg Hand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 18:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lookspring.co.uk/?p=212#comment-8401</guid>
		<description>God Hand is definitely taught me something worthwhile: life is best when seeking situations that make me wanna kiss my fist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God Hand is definitely taught me something worthwhile: life is best when seeking situations that make me wanna kiss my fist.</p>
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